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Do you beleive that people who graduate from Ivy League or top-level colleges have an easier time finding a career, even if the econmy is down?

Hello,


My name is Keanu Moore and I am a junior at Democracy Prep Charter School in Harlem. I aspire to be a lawyer when I "grow up" and later pursue a career in politics.
As college has become more of a reality for me as the months and years go by, I've been seriously looking at institutions that would fit me best. I've scoped out colleges like City College in my neighborhood to schools like Harvard and Yale. My father and stepmother have had several conversations with me about college, and my father even suggested the United States Air Force Academy as an option. They stress that, even in a down economy like the current one, now more than ever before college graduates are having a hard time finding a job. They explain that this is especially true for law jobs, as there was a glut in th elegal industry in the 1980s and 1990s.
As a professional in this industry, I was wondering what you think about the current job market for lawyers and how I can best navigate in it.
Pleasure to make your aquaintance.


Keanu

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Conor’s Answer

Graduating from an Ivy League college makes a world of difference for some industries. Applying to law school is one of them, but actually getting a job as a lawyer will require your law degree which may be a different institution than the Ivy League college you would attend as an undergrad (Harvard and Yale have law schools but Princeton does not, for example).


The Air Force Academy, West Point, Annapolis, etc. are commonly called the "Service Academies" and have similar levels of prestige - and admissions rates, so they are also hard to get into.


You won't have trouble finding a job as a lawyer if you go to a top law school or have top credentials. But it is something to think about, midway through law school.


Right now, I'd say your stepping stone to a legal education would be college and really it's a wide open field, so try to go to a great college and do well and that will help you get into a good law school.

Thank you comment icon Thanks for the answer! Helen
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Christopher’s Answer

Actually, the caliber of one's undergrad institution is of trivial importance in the law school admissions process. Acceptance into law school is a function of undergrad GPA, LSAT score, and status as a minority. Everything else is essentially inconsequential. This is largely due to the emphasis placed on the USNews rankings, which incorporate a measure of input quality (where input quality is the median LSAT and the median GPA of incoming classes). Disentangling a causal effect of undergrad caliber on success in the law school admissions process is difficult, since undergrad caliber is correlated with other significant factors.


That said, the suggestion that one should go to a great school obviously holds. It should include the following caveats:


1) The primary benefit of a great college will be the quality of the education received. It will provide only a small direct boost in the law school admissions process, if it provides one at all.


2) Be sure to include a measure of expected student loans from undergrad. You will probably need loans to pay for law school. If you have substantial undergrad loans, your ability/willingness to take out loans for law school with be negatively affected.


Law students who graduate from great law schools still get good jobs. Those graduating from poor schools fare considerably worse. If you want to be a lawyer, do your best to go to a great law school. If you get into a great law school (top 14 or so), it is probably justifiable to take out substantial loans.


However, as you slide further from the top of the rankings, the value of the degree decreases (the expected salary at graduation decreases significantly). It may still make sense to go to law school at a university that is outside the top tier. However, one should not take out tremendous loans to do so.


A basic decision rule for those who want to be lawyers -


1) If you can go to a school in the ~top 14, it is worth it to do so even if it is very expensive.


2) If you can't go to a school in the ~top 14, go to your flagship state school for in-state tuition or a private school at which you have competitive scholarships.


If you stick to that strategy, you'll probably end up with a good job and a salary that is sufficiently large to pay off loans.

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Phi’s Answer

First of all, I want to commend you on researching the schools in your area and thinking ahead about your career path. I do not live in your area (I am in CA) so I cannot speak about the job market there for attorneys but I can speak generally about my experience in practice. I did not go to a top tier law school or undergraduate school. I went to a state university (a UC) and went to a private law school. I had decent grades but my LSAT score was not very high. I am not a very good standardized test taker (however I did pass the CA bar the 1st time, phew) and am more of an essay/written exam type of person. In any case, I did not have a lot of extra curricular activities in law school but I did do a lot of volunteer work with an organization that did clinics to serve those in need. It was very rewarding and great hands-on experience. During the summers I worked for a solo practitioner one year and the following year worked with a government agency (space and naval) for no pay but received credits. This also was a very good experience for me and helped build my resume. I did take on debt because private law school is expensive and did not get paid very much during the time I was in school since I did mostly volunteer work. After school I took the bar and took a job at a law firm doing temp work. Once I passed the bar I started working for a private firm and then moved on from there. My last job was in-house at Berkshire Hathaway Homestate Companies. I tell you all this to give you some encouragement because I was not a stellar student and I was able to obtain meaningful employment that built up my resume and utilized my degree. I have always been very flexible in my job searches so if you find that you are not "at the top" all of the time, you just need to widen the scope of what you are looking for (whether it is school or work). That is really my advice to you in the end. You can make things happen. You just really need to keep your eyes open and think outside of the box. There are many opportunities out there and doing what everyone else is doing may not always be the best route. Best wishes to you!

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