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Rashmitha
Student
Winter Garden, Florida
4
Questions
Updated
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Is there such thing as a neuro-oncology lab scientist instead of an actual doctor or surgeon How many years of school do I have to go through for this job?
I'm a rising senior in high school and I don't see myself physically working with patients but rather in a laboratory setting trying to develop treatments for brain cancer instead. Do these types of jobs exist and what is the education required to do so? I am also interested if this sort of career can provide me flexibility and allow me time to spend with my family and enjoy life.
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5 answers
Thirada Boonrawd
Science research student
18
Answers
Bangkok, Thailand
Updated
Thirada’s Answer
Hello! The career you're describing does exist, and there are a few different ways to do it. That's because there are different places where these labs that study brain cancers exist. See below...
1. The first way is to get a PhD and stay in academia. This means you will become a professor or research faculty member affiliated with a university, and run you own lab. This path comes with lots of issues. Overwork is very common, and there's lots of pressure, and the pay is low. However, since you get to run your own lab, you get to choose what topic you want to research, rather than following someone else's orders. It's also good if you like mentoring because students will work in your lab, and you can help them with career development in science. To get a PhD in the US, you finish your bachelor's (3-4 years), do a PhD (around 5-6 years), do a post-doc training (how many years is up to you), and apply for faculty positions. I met one person who did 5 years of post-doc training before applying for faculty positions, so if he did a 4 year BS, and a 5 year PhD, that would take 14 years total. However, it's probably longer than that because between the bachelor's and the PhD, you might have taken gap years or done a masters. Just be aware that you can work as a research assistant in a lab that studies brain cancer for a couple years after your bachelors, before you apply for PhD (you can do this instead of a masters. In the US, these two options are equally as good).
2. The second way is the biotech industry. You said you want to develop drugs for brain cancer. The R&D teams in biotech do research and method development for drugs that the company is working on. There's a drug discovery team that figures out how to design the drug. There are other teams that experiment with cell cultures to make the drug, or use columns to purify the drug, or develop methods to analyze the drug to check for consistent quality, etc. In large biotech companies (such as Biogen, Takeda, Novartis, Pfizer, etc), there will be many research teams, and each team does a different thing. You might want to figure out which part of the drug research process you enjoy. Many companies, like the ones I listed above, have summer internship positions you can apply for on their website! I highly recommend you give it a try. The good thing is, for biotech, you can get a job right after your bachelors. However, after working for a few years, you'll hit a "ceiling". At this point, you need to decide if you're going to get a PhD or not, because most people in this industry do have PhDs. Many people work right after their bachelors, get a few years of experience, and then get a PhD. I've also met some people who did a bachelor's in engineering, switched to working in biotech, and did a part time masters at the same time. One thing to consider: there are places where lots of biotech companies are located at (I heard it's Boston, NYC, San Francisco, and LA). If you go to these places, your chances of getting hired increased. Biotech company salaries are higher if you have more experience and higher education.
3. I'm not actually too sure about this third way, but I have a vague sense that it's doable. Please research this more. The third (and fourth) way is to do an MD (go to medical school), but then run your own lab after graduation. I don't know how this works, but I met a medical school professor at Tufts who ran his own lab, researching schizophrenia. Medical school is an option, but if you're not into it, then skip this idea. The fourth option is finding work at a government-run research institute instead of working at a university lab or biotech company. I'm not so sure about this one either, since I've never looked into it, but you should see what info you can find.
Since you're a high school senior, I'm going to put some tips for how to choose a university that matches your career goal of becoming a researcher:
1. Make sure the university you go to has research opportunities. This means there are lots of labs to volunteer in. Or, there should be hospitals or other research institutes nearby, so you can do research there too.
2. Perhaps you can consider going to one of the cities that has many biotech companies, so you can intern at one.
3. A lot of the time, labs in universities that research brain cancer are going to be located in hospitals, and the faculty in charge are usually medical school faculty. Look at universities that have affiliated hospitals, look through their websites to find their research labs, and see which universities have interesting brain cancer labs that you want to work at. If you get into those places and you enroll, try emailing the professors/faculty to see if you can work/volunteer in their lab. This way, you'll get experience researching brain cancer. For example, I know Atique Ahmed, a medical school faculty at Northwestern University, studies glioma stem cells. If you search "labs that study therapeutics for brain cancer" on google, I think you'll find a lot of places. Try contacting the principal investigator (faculty member in charge of the lab) of the labs you're interested in to see if you can work there (part time work, summer internship, part time volunteer during the semester, etc).
OK sorry that was very long. Hope it was helpful! Good luck! Research is hard, so hang in there, don't give up, ask for help, and enjoy the learning process!
1. The first way is to get a PhD and stay in academia. This means you will become a professor or research faculty member affiliated with a university, and run you own lab. This path comes with lots of issues. Overwork is very common, and there's lots of pressure, and the pay is low. However, since you get to run your own lab, you get to choose what topic you want to research, rather than following someone else's orders. It's also good if you like mentoring because students will work in your lab, and you can help them with career development in science. To get a PhD in the US, you finish your bachelor's (3-4 years), do a PhD (around 5-6 years), do a post-doc training (how many years is up to you), and apply for faculty positions. I met one person who did 5 years of post-doc training before applying for faculty positions, so if he did a 4 year BS, and a 5 year PhD, that would take 14 years total. However, it's probably longer than that because between the bachelor's and the PhD, you might have taken gap years or done a masters. Just be aware that you can work as a research assistant in a lab that studies brain cancer for a couple years after your bachelors, before you apply for PhD (you can do this instead of a masters. In the US, these two options are equally as good).
2. The second way is the biotech industry. You said you want to develop drugs for brain cancer. The R&D teams in biotech do research and method development for drugs that the company is working on. There's a drug discovery team that figures out how to design the drug. There are other teams that experiment with cell cultures to make the drug, or use columns to purify the drug, or develop methods to analyze the drug to check for consistent quality, etc. In large biotech companies (such as Biogen, Takeda, Novartis, Pfizer, etc), there will be many research teams, and each team does a different thing. You might want to figure out which part of the drug research process you enjoy. Many companies, like the ones I listed above, have summer internship positions you can apply for on their website! I highly recommend you give it a try. The good thing is, for biotech, you can get a job right after your bachelors. However, after working for a few years, you'll hit a "ceiling". At this point, you need to decide if you're going to get a PhD or not, because most people in this industry do have PhDs. Many people work right after their bachelors, get a few years of experience, and then get a PhD. I've also met some people who did a bachelor's in engineering, switched to working in biotech, and did a part time masters at the same time. One thing to consider: there are places where lots of biotech companies are located at (I heard it's Boston, NYC, San Francisco, and LA). If you go to these places, your chances of getting hired increased. Biotech company salaries are higher if you have more experience and higher education.
3. I'm not actually too sure about this third way, but I have a vague sense that it's doable. Please research this more. The third (and fourth) way is to do an MD (go to medical school), but then run your own lab after graduation. I don't know how this works, but I met a medical school professor at Tufts who ran his own lab, researching schizophrenia. Medical school is an option, but if you're not into it, then skip this idea. The fourth option is finding work at a government-run research institute instead of working at a university lab or biotech company. I'm not so sure about this one either, since I've never looked into it, but you should see what info you can find.
Since you're a high school senior, I'm going to put some tips for how to choose a university that matches your career goal of becoming a researcher:
1. Make sure the university you go to has research opportunities. This means there are lots of labs to volunteer in. Or, there should be hospitals or other research institutes nearby, so you can do research there too.
2. Perhaps you can consider going to one of the cities that has many biotech companies, so you can intern at one.
3. A lot of the time, labs in universities that research brain cancer are going to be located in hospitals, and the faculty in charge are usually medical school faculty. Look at universities that have affiliated hospitals, look through their websites to find their research labs, and see which universities have interesting brain cancer labs that you want to work at. If you get into those places and you enroll, try emailing the professors/faculty to see if you can work/volunteer in their lab. This way, you'll get experience researching brain cancer. For example, I know Atique Ahmed, a medical school faculty at Northwestern University, studies glioma stem cells. If you search "labs that study therapeutics for brain cancer" on google, I think you'll find a lot of places. Try contacting the principal investigator (faculty member in charge of the lab) of the labs you're interested in to see if you can work there (part time work, summer internship, part time volunteer during the semester, etc).
OK sorry that was very long. Hope it was helpful! Good luck! Research is hard, so hang in there, don't give up, ask for help, and enjoy the learning process!
Thank you so much for this detailed and insightful answer Thirada!
Rashmitha
Joseph Neilson
Radiation Detection Physicist
224
Answers
Oxford, England, United Kingdom
Updated
Joseph’s Answer
A few years ago, I visited a local cancer research lab and spoke with some of the scientists there, so I certainly know you can work in a lab setting rather than as surgical staff. The lab I visited wasn't as specific as neuro-oncology though, they were dealing with samples of pretty much every kind of cancer. There might be some niche labs that specialise in testing solely neurological cancers, but I got the impression that many cancer labs are broader ranging than focusing on one specific cancer. I have to say, my interest as a radiation scientist was more to do with the irradiations they were doing to test the effectiveness of radiotherapy treatments on different cancers, rather than thinking too much about the types of cancer, so it's possible that my impression on that is mistaken, but something for you to keep in mind.
In terms of the education requirements, they had quite a range of backgrounds working there depending on the exact role. There was a young woman doing basic sample management tracking and checks on freezer temperatures and stuff, and I think she said she'd joined straight out of school in a basic technician role.
Most of the more scientific lab staff would have been degree-educated, however; and most had gone on to complete a level of postgraduate education too, some having a postgraduate Masters, but many were postdoctoral researchers after finishing PhDs. Subject-wise, there was a mix, some studied biology, some chemistry, some medicine, and I think some more random backgrounds too.
The head of the lab I think had come from a surgical background, a medical doctor of many years experience.
Flexibility wise, it depends exactly how much flexibility you're looking for, but there's generally good flexibility at most labs, with many offering flexi-hours, hybrid working (for tasks not exclusively in the lab), or part-time contracts
In terms of the education requirements, they had quite a range of backgrounds working there depending on the exact role. There was a young woman doing basic sample management tracking and checks on freezer temperatures and stuff, and I think she said she'd joined straight out of school in a basic technician role.
Most of the more scientific lab staff would have been degree-educated, however; and most had gone on to complete a level of postgraduate education too, some having a postgraduate Masters, but many were postdoctoral researchers after finishing PhDs. Subject-wise, there was a mix, some studied biology, some chemistry, some medicine, and I think some more random backgrounds too.
The head of the lab I think had come from a surgical background, a medical doctor of many years experience.
Flexibility wise, it depends exactly how much flexibility you're looking for, but there's generally good flexibility at most labs, with many offering flexi-hours, hybrid working (for tasks not exclusively in the lab), or part-time contracts
Mansi Karkhanis, PhD
Field Scientific Director
8
Answers
Houston, Texas
Updated
Mansi’s Answer
Yes, a neuro-oncology scientist job does exist. It is a highly specialized field of science, for which you will need graduate level education and a PhD as a terminal degree. Typically, in the US, you will first need to get a bachelor's degree with biology-related subjects as majors. This itself takes about 4 years. Then you will need to do a PhD which can take at least 5 years. The average time for a student to do a PhD in the US is 6 years. Getting into good schools for a PhD requires high CGPA in your bachelor's degree and laboratory experience in the form of summer internships usually helps. Because neuro-oncology is so specialized you may also need to do a postdoctoral fellowship that may take at least 3 years or more. Once you have gained all of this experience and developed your expertise in neuro-oncology, then you can apply for neuro-oncology jobs. There are 2 ways in which you can try to look for neuro-oncology scientist jobs:
1 - Academic faculty positions - Apply to academic universities for a faculty position where you can have your own lab and carry out research. It is highly competitive to get an academic position these days, and even more difficult to get a tenure after becoming a faculty. There is also constant pressure to secure funding through grants (NIH, NCI, etc.) and to publish research in high impact journals. Along with these, there is a lot of academic administrative duties and teaching duties that you will have to fulfill. In my opinion, this career does not give the best work-life balance.
2 - Industry scientist job - You can look for scientist job in the biotech or pharmaceutical industry. Some companies are also offering postdoctoral fellowship that you can apply after finishing your PhD. Getting a job in the industry is also very competitive. However, there is much better work-life balance. The salaries in the industry are much higher than what you get paid in academia.
1 - Academic faculty positions - Apply to academic universities for a faculty position where you can have your own lab and carry out research. It is highly competitive to get an academic position these days, and even more difficult to get a tenure after becoming a faculty. There is also constant pressure to secure funding through grants (NIH, NCI, etc.) and to publish research in high impact journals. Along with these, there is a lot of academic administrative duties and teaching duties that you will have to fulfill. In my opinion, this career does not give the best work-life balance.
2 - Industry scientist job - You can look for scientist job in the biotech or pharmaceutical industry. Some companies are also offering postdoctoral fellowship that you can apply after finishing your PhD. Getting a job in the industry is also very competitive. However, there is much better work-life balance. The salaries in the industry are much higher than what you get paid in academia.
Lilli Wright, PhD
Cancer and Cardiovascular Research Associate
1
Answer
Updated
Lilli’s Answer
Hi Rashmitha! These careers absolutely exists. For education, I would consider exploring graduate programs (MS or PhD) in the future. Also, it's not too early to volunteer in neuro-oncology labs, listen to Ted Talks, or get experience in research labs at your local universities. I would also start exploring AI and how that might impact neuro-oncology research and medicine in the future. Best wishes!
Steward "Tony" Pacheco
Minister, USMC Vet, John C. Maxwell Cert. Coach, Trainer, Speaker, Teacher, Straight Shooter
125
Answers
Kyle, Texas
Updated
Steward "Tony"’s Answer
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